League of Legends

Swain's Rework: Where Everything Went Wrong | League of Legends

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Welcome back to another episode of the Rework Retrospective! It’s been a very long time since the last episode but worry not! I haven’t forgotten about this series. Today we’re gonna be talking about a champion who Riot somehow managed to screw up despite not requiring any major adjustments from the old one. So let’s dive into Swain: The Noxian Grand General

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  1. Ngl, I've always liked this Swain, never played the older one, but oldswain seems less unique than the new one, but holy fuck the Q of the new one does suck.

  2. I'm an ex top 20 most played Swain in the world (pre rework) – I've said it before, but if Riot wants to move Swain back into the mid/top lane the easiest thing they can do is change Swain's R to a toggle low CD like it used to be. His R is so incredibly easy to escape from for any champion with mobility for the cooldown it's on.

  3. Unpopular opinion: I love the rework. I've played old swain a lot but I think new swain is so much nicer to play. All of old swain abilities were no fun. Because they were all stat stick abilities, if you were ahead there was no counterplay, if you were behind you were out of the game. And I do think new swain abilities have synergies. Hit E and use passive for guaranteed W hit. Or first use W to zone an enemy into your E. Use E and your passive to get someone into your Q range. Use Q+W for killing caster minions quickly. Use ulti to hit Q's up close for extra damage. Tons of synergies actually. Passive also synergizes with teammates CC. Vision of empire is my favourite ability in the game. One of the most versatile abilities there is, used for zoning, scouting, sniping, cancel enemy B, raising max HP, DPS, CC, saving teammates, grabbing out of reach CS, steal buffs, track enemy jungle path, etc, etc. And about his range, look at it like this: he's mid to short range mage with range utility thanks to W. I only play Swain top, he doesn't feel weak in lane at all imo, no reason to just use him as support.

  4. They turned a Raid Boss into a support… If I'm picking an ap support for my team, I would rather Brand or Zyra.
    They need to rework my boy again XD

  5. there was and old Swain and now there is a new gimmick Sven (in terms of playstyle). visual overhaul is perfect. possibly even the best of all reworks.

    i loved old swain because he made me feel like im playing good old warlock in wow — u have damage but mostly u focus on zoning with cc and sustaining urself meanwhile.

    i understand that swains dot damage was kinda easy to apply but it could get reworked to something like yorick's E (skillshot) or modern malzahar's E that is pretty weak by itself in early and mid-game, however if u hit malza's Q or R it refreshes the ability. AND landing mazlas Q isnt hardest skillshot in game however it actually requires pretty good practice especially in modern league where most of champs can dash and if not — buy an item that will allow to do so.

    and just to balance out all the idea of keeping a DoT — it should be on a fairly long cooldown (something like 8–11 seconds when maxed) so u are either required to land some kind of CC first to make sure u land an ability (either its super low range click and point, or medium range skillshot) OR just built an ability haste thus lowering ur overall damage output by 20–35%…

    hire me riot lmao

  6. swain skills still work with each other.
    E works with Q. Pull for more damage
    W is pretty much OP when you have AP build. In my opinion, W late game surpasses even Xerath's ult specially if you have Elder.

  7. As a Swain mid pre and post rework I have to disagree that his abilities don't have cohesion nor make sense.
    His passive allows you to pull a CC'ed enemy and regain some health back, be that from your own root (E) or from a teammates.
    It also procs from slain enemies, very useful for quick healing in the middle of a prolonged team fight.

    His W makes sense as a tactician, and works quite well for zoning. Its saved many allies from advancing enemies or cut off fleeing adversaries (or just killing them outright) from across the map.
    The W also procs item on-hit debuffs, like Grievous Wounds. If your top laner is all-in with an enemy Nasus, a grievous wounds from midlane may just tip the balance in your team's favor.

    It can also be used in lane against an opponent. Rooting an enemy with E, placing a W right in front of them, then pulling them up close with passive for a point blank blast of your Q is a satisfying combo that synergizes well.

    His Q is a shotgun that is stronger the closer you're in range, well thanks to Swain's passive he's able to pull people closer to him for a more optimal blast from Q.

    His ultimate is a bit different than what it used to be but still has the spirit of his previous ultimate. It heals, drains, damages, and eventually explodes. This explosion can be done prematurely to catch opponents off guard, or to ensure a kill. The timer ensures that the player must think optimally about when they should activate it, much like a tactician.

    You noted skill expression as an important part of a champion's kit, and I think thats still present with Swain. A bad pull may drag an enemy bruiser into your adc, a delayed pull ensures a longer root. W is easy to dodge if you don't plan accordingly, and if you hold your ult too long the enemy can flash out of the explosion or just kill you.

    I do miss old Swain, but I actually think new Swain is more fun to play and takes a bit more skill.

  8. Old Swain was know for a short cooldown toggle Ult
    Damage over time abilities
    Damage amplifier. Which meant if you didn't E before blowing all your abilities your damage were alot lower.
    Good sustain.

    New Swain has none of those abilities.

    Quick fix is incorporate a damage overtime to one of his abilities as well as a amplifier. Change his burst ult to a short cooldown drain ult.

    They made a champion that was fun both mid and Top to move to bot lane.

  9. Riot too much healing is not good for the game.

    So We reworking Swain and nerfing Vlad.

    Then we reworking Aatrox. Buffing Sylas W. Releasing Gwen and Viego.

    Too balance Any healing

  10. I really miss the old swain. He was the champion that made me fall in love with League. Out of all the reworks I think this one is the worst.

  11. Absolutely hate it. I loved how Swain was a DOT Warlock style character who could raid boss for a few secs. Really unique. Now he's trash.

  12. BROOOO thank you so much for this video .. i mained swain back in 2012-2015, then i stopped playing for 3 yrs and i miss the old swain… i feel like i was the only one who ever played him… when i talk to buddies via riot and mention it NO ONE ever knows what im talking about with the old swain.. and im like omfg i loved his old kit. I felt like he was the diamond in the rough and i still main swain and have to pick when i wanna be battle mage when my ults up but thats so damn frustrating…… i felt like i was crazy being the only one i knew bitching about this for 2 years now lol

  13. I can't compare the old one vs the new one, I never had the pleasure of playing old swain. but new swain makes so much sense up close. his new abilities compliment each other and his W is honestly my favorite ability in the game. You root someone with E, pull them in after a moment of delay so you can gap close. Then you Q for max dmg . Alternatively you can E-Q then drop the W behind them as they try to flee and immediately get another free stack. The W's zoning is phenomenal in bot lane when used correctly. Do I give swain a stack? or do I risk walking around it and getting killed?

  14. Bring back Swain pls I was a Swain main, never getting bored of playing him and with his rework I just stopped playing him… They killed him :/
    Can't we just send this video to the rework section? They changed Rengar and Ryze a zillion times, so why not Swain? Rise to fix the good old tyrant..! pretty please? 😀

  15. As a guy whos only played post rework swain and plays him mid, he does feel pretty underwhelming, and i hate the fact that most of the time youre relying on someone else’s root to land your own, but personally I think they steered the champ towards the right direction, but missed a bit with his ability redesign

  16. I'm pretty new, so I haven't played old Swain. But I love the new one, love the look and abillities. His passive is a bit weak, I think, but otherwise he's an absolute chad!

  17. Love his passive.
    Q is lame.
    W is great cc.
    E I love. Level 1 I can see what side jg is starting on.
    R is really not fitting for his kit anymore.

    That said I love him as support

  18. I was always a big Swain player, and I don't feel like the playstyle really changed at all. Before rework you wanted to be mid to close range to be spamming the old E (which also made ignite and autos deal extra dmg) and using the W as a mid or close range root. You would build Gunblade, ROA, Liandries and Rylias. After rework you want to be mid to close range to combo your e into your q, and you usually use the w on people diving you for healing or running away for cc. You still build essentially the same items tanky mage items. Really the only reason he can't make it as a top or midlaner anymore is that they've pushed his numbers down too much because people were bringing him as a support. He was just fine on rework release, though I'll always miss the toggle bird form.

  19. i came back to lol after years and when i wanted to try out my old main, he didnt play like him, didnt have his strength in lane and combat that I enjoyed and also didnt feel like this crow demon anymore, which was one of the main reasons i liked him. now he just feels like a dude

  20. He was one of my favorite champions of all time I really loved his playstyle you could play passive but get into the frontline if you needed to… and also he zoned everyone from him and also his damage was so much only with his E already mid game and the nevermove was a great CC that awarded good players on him beacuse it wasn’t that easy to hit but in fights it was easy and did really good damage

    But the rework made the damage over time zoning mage to a Lux/Morgana type of mage

  21. See oddly enough, I actually love the new swain and have found myself maining him as an apc either bot or mid. I think if built right he is an absolute beast and really adds a lot of value to a team. I love the synergy of his abilities and find myself only really losing trades if I cast poorly or if its just a hard counter.

  22. I really miss Swain's Toggle ult, I think Toggle abilitys are some of the most fun in the game and it's a shame they are trying to remove them.

  23. Personally I hate the Fiddle rework, like in theory it's good, but in practice it just feels clunky, kind of like how Swains rework resulted in him feeling clunky, like Fiddles is still a better rework because well it's still clearly Fiddle, you got your Ult and Fears while sucking people, but Swain was literally all about the Toggle ult that clears waves and heals, removing Swains Toggle ult really just makes it not Swain anymore like you said.

  24. I don't know that Swain came out "better" but I think his playstyle now is far more engaging that his old one. His old one was basically just place bird repeatedly, stun, ult. Now its closer to E, QW, R if the enemy team engages you. The moves themselves are more skill expressive than his old kit, allowing for control of a larger area with his w, but also forcing the enemy team to fight when you want them to. He is an extremely powerful zoner. Given that his passive also works on ally CC, he pairs well together with anyone who happens to have some CC in their back pocket too. Swain could be a midlaner, a top laner, or a support, depending on how you decide to play him, from burst mage, to drain tank, to lockdown support.

    Plus I love the visual and lore design for modern swain, as well as his voicelines. The whole Grand General fantasy is certainly played up better now than the previously pseudo high fantasy bad guy design. I think Noxus really gets the most out of Lore reworks. Old Noxus was just "the bad guys" before, but Noxus has interesting political power dynamics internally, and Swain is basically at the core of that. You can basically tell just by looking at him.

  25. I must disagree with the idea that his 3 base skills don't have a synergy. Nevermore can cc the target setting up for guaranteed vision of empire followed by ravenous flock into closer range for more damage from his Q. They may not be the most synergetic skills but they can all work together in a combo that does make them stronger when used like that. And while his laning phase isn't super strong he is not weak. Once he gets lvl 6 he can 1v2 many top/mid and jungle fights. He has his issues no doubt. But I don't think hes in a very bad state atm.

  26. Old Swain I could zone, sometimes land the snare for the jungle, and tank if I got engaged on while doing decent damage. He was more positioning based and it felt tactical. The new Swain I can do none of that. The snare + pull back feels more disadvantageous as if you snare the wrong person or if minions are further behind someone, it becomes too close for comfort, or you just don't hit. The weird ability distances makes him feel so clunky and a waiting game than active zoning and repositioning. The reveal ability is next to useless as it's hard to hit, low damage, and only slows/reveals. It can't really stop a gank even if you hit it perfectly, or make them overcommit if you got them snared at tower. The new ult also feels like a gimmick. Sure you charge up to a big kaboom, but the old one was about managing your mana and engage, being able to go in and pull back as needed. The new ult feels like a full commitment, all-in as you can't maximize your damage at the end if you're not deep in the enemy. The old ult felt more terrifying, the new ult is scary but it doesn't give the same satisfaction?

  27. I avoid playing it after the rework… I mainly play aram because I don't have time… but now it's pretty much useless unless somehow you manage to feed it. 70% of the game I stand around waiting for cooldowns the rest of the time I wonder how are they making so little damage… you can only do something every 50+ or so seconds when your ult comes off of cooldown…

  28. I miss old Swain so much. I used to main him, it was so much fun. Honestly I never play him after they reworked him. Switched to Malzahar instead.

  29. As a swain main, i have to disagree with saying his basic abilities have no cohesion, because they do it's just not the same as his old abilities.

    Old swain: decrepify is main damage and zone, nevermove zones them to move preferably near decrepify, and and torment increases damage done by other 2.

    New swain: nevermove used to activate passive, allowing deaths hand to deal more damage and vision of empire to hit applying a slow to keep up with his oppoent.

    It is true he is no longer a zoner/catcher mage, but he is now a pickoff battle mage.

  30. Swain rework to me felt similar to graves being turned from a ADC into a jungler where I don’t believe riot cared about their gameplay and if it was unhealthy/needed to be updated but was something far worse

    “Change for the sake of change”.

  31. My brother was an old Swain and Morde main, they "reworked" both characters and he just ditched the game.

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